KRISHNAMURTI: The gentleman says that we instinctively avoid pain and sorrow. When you say you avoid pain and sorrow, then why do you suffer? Such a question has no meaning. If you say, “I instinctively avoid a snake,” then that has an answer; that is a fact. But when you say you instinctively want to avoid pain and suffering, you are living in suffering; you can’t avoid it. You are following all this, sirs? Why do you suffer? Go into it, sirs. That is your challenge. What is your response to that challenge, sirs? Why do you suffer?
Comment: Because we are not full, because our mind is not full. There is the utter emptiness of life.
KRISHNAMURTI: You have given explanations, and at the end of it you suffer—which means that you accept suffering as inevitable. A healthy mind does not accept suffering, sir. Now after explaining, do you want to go into it? How do you go into it so that when you leave this room, you are finished with suffering once and for all, you do not go back to the eternal wheel of sorrow?
Comment: Accept the fact that there is suffering. Attachment is the cause of sorrow.
KRISHNAMURTI: You say that attachment is the cause of sorrow. Therefore, you cultivate detachment, and in the meantime you are agonizing. You are in a state of agony, and you accept the fact that you are suffering. Why do you accept it? You don’t accept sunshine, do you? Suffering is there; you don’t have to accept it. Pain with its burning intensity is agonizing you, and you don’t say, “I must accept it.” It is there. You can explain, you can gradually push it away—that is what you are doing. You might say, “I accept it, I will bear with it,” but you can’t bear with an intense pain more than a few hours or so.
And the mind says sorrow is created by attachment—which means you will be free from sorrow if you are detached. So you begin to cultivate detachment which all the books talk about. Why are you attached first of all? You say that you are inwardly empty, and therefore you are attached to the wife, to the child, to an idea, to power, position, to fill that emptiness. You don’t tackle the emptiness, but you run away from the emptiness. So how do you face this fact of suffering?
The Collected Works of J. Krishnamurti -Volume XII 1961: There Is No Thinker, Only Thought
Jiddu Krishnamurti
Action which springs from the self-preserving process of consciousness with its many layers of ignorance, tendencies, wants, fears cannot liberate the mind from its own self-created limitation, but merely intensifies sorrow and frustration. As long as this process continues, as long as there is no comprehension of this ‘I’ process, not only in its obvious form and expression, but also in its prodigious subtleties, there must be suffering and confusion. Yet this very suffering, from which we are ever trying to escape, can lead us to the comprehension of the ‘I’ process, to the profound knowledge of oneself, but all escapes into illusion must cease. The greater the suffering, the stronger is the indication of limitation. But if you do not suffer, it does not necessarily mean that you are free of limitations. On the contrary, it may be that your mind is stagnant within self-protective walls so that no provocations of life, no experiences, can stir it into activity and so awaken it to sorrow. Such a mind is incapable of discerning reality. Suffering can bring about the comprehension of oneself if you do not try to avoid it or to escape from it.
How can we bring to an end the ‘I’ process, so that our action does not create further limitations and sorrow? To bring this ‘I’ process to an end, there must be the consciousness of suffering, not the mere conception of suffering. Unless there is the vital provocation of life, most of us are apt to comfort ourselves to sleep and so allow unconsciously the ‘I’ process to continue. The essential requirement for the discernment of the ‘I’ process is to be fully conscious of suffering. Then there must be the utter certainty that there are no escapes whatsoever from suffering. All search for comfort and superficial remedies then wholly ceases. All ritualistic palliatives cease to have any significance. We then begin to perceive that no external agency can help us to bring this self-sustaining process of ignorance to an end. When the mind is in this state of openness, when it is wholly able to confront itself, then it becomes its own mirror, then there is undivided consciousness; it does not judge its actions by standards, nor is it controlled by the authority of ideal. It is then its own creator and destroyer. Environment with its conditioning influences, and heredity with its limiting characteristics, yield to the comprehension of the ‘I’ process. When the mind discerns this process integrally, it sees itself as the process, utilizing all action, all relationship to sustain itself. In the renewal of itself from moment to moment, through its own volitional activities, the ‘I’ process is perpetuating itself and merely engendering sorrow.
The Collected Works of J. Krishnamurti – Volume III 1936-1944: The Mirror of Relationship
Jiddu Krishnamurti
“NOT POSSIBLE” A chat between Dr. Patitpaban Panigrahi and Dr. Robin Starbuck
Patitpaban Panigrahi:
Not possible.
In reality there is
No Wisdom and
No Eastern and Western.
As there is no World
Robin: Patitpaban Panigrahi i hear you and I agree.
Patitpaban Panigrahi: Robin Starbuck Thank you. So nice of you..
Since you are birth less and deathless., there is no rebirth , resurrection etc.
Robin: Patitpaban Panigrahi i totally agree. Patitpaban Panigrahi but I also do daily activities. Patitpaban Panigrahi and I’m interested in sharing the enlightenment that you talk about. Patitpaban Panigrahi that’s why I speak in a language form that they comprehend. Patitpaban Panigrahi, everything that you said about no reincarnation no resurrection no rebirth no birth etc is what I believe deep in my heart and I am trying to impart it.
Patitpaban Panigrahi Robin Starbuck Thank ‘no – you’ Nobody is born into the world, for there is is no world.. Nobody lives and nobody does anything, all volitions are appearances on the nonexistent consciousness are false.
Robin: Patitpaban Panigrahi I’m delighted to say that I absolutely agree with you. Even Quantum Physics bears this out. Very few people that I know really grasp the profundity of what we’re talking about, but that’s okay because – like you say – there are no people, no world, no issues!
Robin: Patitpaban Panigrahi I want to say Thank ‘no-you’ very, very much. Your comments helped me to realize that less is not good enough. When no-thing is the glorious fact, why should I settle for stuff? I’m so weary of false appearances!
Patitpaban Panigrahi:
Robin Starbuck
Thank you O divine mother. I am nothing but we can keep discussing anything , including Quantum physics, I know very little of it, If I could learn from you. Good.
Now please say me about your idea on matter , Is there objective reality in the matter.???
Robin:
Patitpaban Panigrahi the short answer is no. Matter does not exist. Shared hypnotic delusion seems to be rampant but when you multiply zero times a gazillion the result is never more than non-existence, no-thing, no-mind, no-power, zero.
(Thank you for the honorific title divine mother but I’d prefer to be a gender-less no-thing!)
Patitpaban Panigrahi
Robin Starbuck
Thank you.
If matter doesn’t exist.
What physics is then ?
Robin:
Patitpaban Panigrahi I think you know – illusion! Isn’t that called maya?
Patitpaban Panigrahi:
Robin Starbuck
Yes exactly .Maya.
In absence of matter, there is no physics, And n absence of Physics , there is no Quantum Physics.
In absence of matter, there is no Chemistry and Biology.. The whole of natural science is FRAUD.
But none feels ditched cuz there is no Human either.
Robin:
Patitpaban Panigrahi hahaha! I love it! Unfortunately even you and I have to care somewhat about functioning within the illusion in order to eat, sleep, breathe. Even my desire to help others wake up puts me in a state of duality so I have to keep remembering that as human forms, neither they nor I exist.
It’s so incredibly wonderful to meditate on what actually does exist – the void – and allow it to transform us. This can be done walking down the street as easily as quietly at home.
Patitpaban Panigrahi:
Robin Starbuck
I am what I am- changeless
There is no transformation
in me, not possible..
The Ego keeps the dream alive that the people are born in the Now, defends it
strongly from all direction and impells one to live the dream called reality..
In the absence of a doer ,where the body physiology be ..
Robin:
I was blessed with having learned what you said re changelessness and non-transformation at a very young age; but alas the ego had its fun with me. (So glad “me” never existed!) In the absence of a doer – or in the seeming presence – there is no body! Are you aware of that unspeakably amazing fact 100% of the time, Patitpaban Panigrahi?
Robin: Have you heard of ACIM, Patitpaban Panigrahi? Here’s an excerpt: “VII. THE TWO DECISIONS The Holy Spirit, like the ego, is a decision. Together they constitute all the alternatives which the mind can accept and obey. The ego and the Holy Spirit are the only choices open to you. God created one, and so you cannot eradicate it. You made the other, and so you can. Only what God creates is irreversible and unchangeable. What you have made can always be changed because when you do not think like God you are not really thinking at all.” ACIM.OE.TX.CH 5.VII.67
Patitpaban Panigrahi:
Robin Starbuck
No knowledge of ACIM and no desire to know.l am desire less and knowledge less and needless , Nothing. I am not able to maintain the state 100% time. I am not the doer, not the maintainer, So whether I maintain 100% of time is irrelevant b cox, the is no Time and no “state”.I never came here and don’t live the life of Human,l am not Human even. I have no qualification to know of God coz I am neither created nor am I a devotee. Absolute Absence, Shunya,
Robin:
Patitpaban Panigrahi
When you write like you did here you help a lot of people. 💓 but why do you care about uplifting others?
Patitpaban Panigrahi:
Robin Starbuck
There are no others.
And I am not born either
Can’t care about uplifting any.
In reality none is yet born capable of lifting anyone
Robin:
Patitpaban Panigrahi
And yet “no – you” shines!
Patitpaban Panigrahi:
Robin Starbuck
Yes, “No-I”
AbsoluteAbsence
Silence.
I T I
Robin:
Patitpaban Panigrahi
You are such an inspiration to me! I’ve been so very close to completely “there”, possibly a thousand times, but I always back off too much. Absolute sustained Absence with total Silence – I love it when I achieve it, but I want more. There really is nothing in my life that’s more important. But if that were entirely true, I would not back off from maintaining full awareness. I believe the word that most nearly approximates what I need is greater commitment.
By the way, what is I T I ?
Patitpaban Panigrahi:
Robin Starbuck
Yes, nice
There is no entity in “no-u”
that can be enlightened.
Enlightenment is your True State.– is
The Pure Awareness– is
The Nirvana, which is Absent either..
You don’t suffer from detachment from that state of blissfulness for any length of time, for there is no Time.and here is not any experiencer nor any state.Whatever appears and disappears is false.
The nonentity is ever FREE from any experiences including spiritual experiences.
The nonegoic bliss remains in absence of a doer and done, in absence of experiencer and experienced, in absence of subject and object.- is
Brahmananda. (The Bliss of the Brahman)
Robin: Patitpaban Panigrahi Thank you for clarifying those salient points. The utter simplicity of it is what I relate to the most even though it seems to require a huge effort in focusing correctly to get there. Btw, are you familiar with Ramana Maharshi and/or Rupert Spira?
Patitpaban Panigrahi: I came to Advaita , by reading Ramana about 7 years ago. And knew Nisargadatta Maharaja simultaneously by reading few pages of” I Am That”. Most learning is from Nisargadatta of course. I had been to Tiruvanamallai long long ago in 1982 without knowing Ramana. But I didnt know him , not even as a Advaitin. I have seen videos of RuperSpira, very meagre. But l haven’t read much and don’t know much. Very very limited knowledge.. I am retired Dean of Medical College, professor of Gynecology and Cancer Surgeon.72 years with health issues.Now resting.
Robin:
Patitpaban Panigrahi
That’s an awesome background. It’s hard for me not to be impressed. It’s your unique path to discovering non-duality (advaita) bringing with it qualities of exactitude, precision, and a stick-to-it-iveness that seems to help you to “cut to the chase” and focus only on absolute truth. What a glorious journey!
Patitpaban Panigrahi
Robin Starbuck
Thank you.
That is an humble STORY only..Actually I never came to the world.I am Nothing.
No knowledge of the World-Maya-Human-Guru-God.
No knowledge of awakening and realization
Nothing. AbsoluteAbsence
No assreter , no negator
Robin:
Patitpaban Panigrahi
Exquisite!!! That’s my story too!
For anyone who isn’t aware of this amazing place to be, it is beyond wonderful — waaaaay beyond wonderful!!! 😍
Robin: Patitpaban Panigrahi I made a little tribute to you by copying this conversation for easier future reading. Would you mind if I shared it on my website? 🙂
Kari Churchill Laidman
Robin Starbuck seeing this last post, I had to read this conversation and wow!!!! I totally agree to all this! I know the truth! And nothing is more important in this fake world as spirituality. Thankyou for this ❤
Robin
Kari Churchill Laidman
I’m so glad this conversation with Patitpaban Panigrahi was so inspiring to you. I also have derived much courage and inspiration from it.
Kari Churchill Laidman
Robin Starbuck oh yes me too
Patitpaban Panigrahi
Robin Starbuck .
Thank you.
I am nonentity, There is no “l” and no “my” , no my words. You can’t “do” anything to those “not-my”
words for U R nondoer , and Absent , U needn’t benefit from those words for U R That , what U R the
Changeless,Nameless,
Nothingness. The one who wants to benefit from these essentially “empty” words is the ‘person’- unreal-false- dream character, trying to effort for the so called ‘true knowledge’, meaningless ‘spiritual experience’ achieve the nonexistent ‘Nirvana’
U R That ,Changeless that can’t ‘be’ ,or ‘become’ anything.
You are not the Human.
Patitpaban Panigrahi
Kari Churchill Laidman
Namaste. Thank ‘no-u’
Welcome and glad meeting you.Plz interact , when free. So nice of you
There is nothing we can do, we can only let things happen according to their nature. Clarity and charity is action. Love is not lazy and clarity directs. You need not worry about action, look after your mind and heart. Stupidity and selfishness are the only evil. (496)
In reality things are done to you, not by you. Your desire just happens to you along with its fulfilment or non-fulfilment. You can change neither. You may believe that you exert yourself, strive and struggle. Again, it all merely happens, including the fruits of the work. Neither is by you and for you. All is in the picture exposed on the cinema screen, nothing in the light, including what you take yourself to be, the person. You are the light only. (481)
Life itself is desireless. But the false self wants to continue – pleasantly. Therefore, it is always engaged in ensuring one’s continuity. Life is unafraid and free. As long as you have the idea of influencing events, liberation is not for you: the very notion of doership, of being a cause, is bondage. (298)
Everybody wants to be active, but where do his actions originate? There is no central point: each action begets another, meaninglessly and painfully, in endless succession. The alternation of work and pause is not there. First find the immutable centre where all movement takes birth. Just like a wheel turns round an axle, so must you be always in the centre and not whirling at the periphery. (349)
The witness is that which says “I know”. The person says “I do”. Now, to say “I know” is not untrue, it is merely limited. But to say “I do” is altogether false, because there is nobody who does; all happens by itself, including the idea of being a doer. The universe is full of action, but there is no actor. There are numberless persons small and big and very big, who, through identification, imagine themselves as acting, but it does not change the fact that the world of action (mahadakash) is one single whole in which all depends on, and affects all. The stars affect us deeply and we affect the stars. Step back from action to consciousness, leave action to the body and the mind; it is their domain. Remain as pure witness, till even witnessing dissolves in the Supreme. (400-1)
Nisargadatta Maharaj Excerpts from: I AM THAT ‘Pure Witness’
“It is not a person that DOES the thinking, sensing and perceiving. The person IS a bundle of thinking, sensing and perceiving.
There is no separate self located in this bundle. This bundle is made of the knowing, which is infinite consciousness.
The person is an activity, not an entity.”
There is only the One Brahman, the One Self, the One Reality, and we’re all That.
Therefore, I will make Our confession.
The “I-am” confesses to you. Not my confession or Henry’s confession, or Dana’s confession or anybody’s confession. Our confession.
The confession is not coming from a person, it’s coming from the One Self, it is the One Self.
Close your eyes. I Am boundless space, infinite like the sky, I Am.
Not a person, place or thing, but I Am.
I Am choiceless, effortless, Pure Awareness.
I Am Parabrahman. I Am Sat-Chit-Ananda.
I Am Ultimate Oneness. I Am
Absolute Reality. I Am Nirvana. I Am infinite like the sky. I Am Absolute Consciousness. I Am That I Am. I Am. I Am. I Am.
There are some who want to awaken with all their heart and with all their soul. Yet they always forget that they have to
get rid of the stuff that’s keeping them from awakening. The concepts, the preconceived ideas, the dogmas, the belief system that we’ve had for so many years. This has to be given up.
We must develop loving kindness, compassion. If you are I Am, then you must practice ahimsa, non-violence to any living thing. For if you admit and confess I Am Absolute Pure Awareness, I Am Parabrahman, this is All-Pervading, this is Omnipresence. Therefore the trees, the animals, the mountains, the Universe, everything, is I Am. When I use the word I Am, do not believe or think it applies to the human body. There is no human body. The human body does not exist. I Am Consciousness exists, and the “I-am” Consciousness is everything.
Everything is holy. Everything is sacred. Do not believe that some things are sacred and some things are not.
Everything is sacred, even man’s inhumanity to man, the dastardly situations that appear in the world. It’s hard for the human mind to understand these things, but everything is very sacred.
Everything is God. God is all there is.
There is nothing else. So how can there be an evil situation someplace and also be God? This is duality. And we know and understand that duality does not exist. There is only the ONE, and the ONE is everything that exists. You consequently have to start feeling this in your Heart. For your Heart center is Omnipresence, All-pervading. It includes the whole universe.
There is nothing to be angry about, nothing to be upset about, nothing to be depressed about, for the whole Universe is God and nothing else. You are not your body or your mind. We still make the mistake in believing that when you say I
Am Brahman, you’re referring to your body.
Your body can never be Brahman.
The body is an illusion, a mirage.
GOING BEYOND THE IMPOSSIBLE
There seems to be a man standing up there talking to a group down below.
Now look at the invisible, please.
You’ll find an ability to look at the invisible one day maybe sooner than you understand it can happen. When you look at it you will finally become aware that there is one soul that is teaching us. There is no physical person here teaching and there is no physical person there listening.
B.: What is meditation?
It is the suspension of thoughts.
You are perturbed by thoughts which rush one after another.
Hold on to one thought so that others are expelled.
Continuous practice gives the necessary strength of mind to engage in meditation.
Meditation differs according to the degree of advancement of the seeker.
If one is fit for it one can hold directly to the thinker;
and the thinker will automatically sink into his source, which is Pure Consciousness.
If one cannot directly hold on to the thinker,
one must meditate on God;
and in due course the same individual
will have become sufficiently pure to hold on to the thinker and
sink into the absolute Being.
~ The Teachings of Bhagavan
Sri Ramana Maharshi in His Own Words
Edited by: ARTHUR OSBORNE
Question: How does the psychoanalytic technique of dealing with fixations, inhibitions, and complexes strike you, and how would you deal with such cases?
KRISHNAMURTI: Can another free you from these limitations, or is it merely a process of substitution? The pursuit of the psychoanalyst has become a hobby of the well-to-do. (Laughter) Don’t laugh, please. You may not go to a psychoanalyst but you go through the same process in a different way when you look to a religious organization, to a leader, or to some discipline to free you from fixations, inhibitions, and complexes. These methods may succeed in creating superficial effects, but they must inevitably develop new resistances against the movement of life. No person and no technique can really free one from these limitations. To experience that freedom one must comprehend life deeply and discern for oneself the process of creating and maintaining ignorance and illusion. This demands alertness and keen perception, not the mere acceptance of a technique. But as one is slothful, one depends on another for comprehension and thereby increases sorrow and confusion. The comprehension of this process of ignorance and its self-sustaining activities, of this consciousness focused in and perceptible only to the individual, can alone bring about deep, abiding bliss to man.
June 4, 1936.
The Collected Works
of J. Krishnamurti
Volume III 1936-1944
The Mirror of Relationship
Jiddu Krishnamurti
